Sonya: Want to hear what Lita's added to her wall of trophies? What Jean's reading now? What job Lita's birth father held that's particularly ironic? Or about the author's emotional journey and growth that comes from a good memoir? Listen to this episode of the Master Wings Beyond the Page podcast and stay tuned till the end and find out where you can meet Lita and Jean.

Sonya: Master Wings Publishing. Books that inspire, educate, and last.

Welcome to Master Wings Beyond the Page podcast. I'm Sonya Sindberg, Associate Publisher here at Master Wings Publishing. Today, I'm joined by Lita Thomas and her daughter Jean Marie McNamara.

Both military veterans are co-authors of the award-winning memoir Lita and Jean, Memoirs of Two Generations of Military Women. Their book brings together two generations of military service, family life, with very candid accounts of trauma, illness, advocacy, and all of those experiences that shaped them both. Lita and Jean, thank you guys so much for being here.

Lita: Thank you for inviting us.

Jean: Yeah, we really appreciate it.

Sonya: I love talking to you guys every time, so I have been looking forward to this. I really appreciate it.

Lita: Well, we will try not to disappoint.

Sonya: Yeah, I know Jean, you suggested that it might be helpful to discuss how writing about painful subjects went, how putting these things on paper can be cathartic.

So today, I'd like if we could talk about what the writing process was like for you guys emotionally, what your understanding of your memories and your experience changed and grew as you examined it, and what the process of writing the book, the experience of writing the book was for you.

Jean: So one thing that, you know, when you're writing about pain, it can be incredibly painful. And when you're talking about an extended period of time, it's hard to, you know, keep track of everything and remember everything. So we went through, we fortunately, perhaps, or unfortunately, kept documentation. And that's something that I think a lot of military personnel pre-digital did, and you just have boxes and boxes and boxes of documentation. So we went through not just emails, but letters to Congress, we went through medical records, we went through every piece of documentation that we had, we went through memorandums.

And then we also went through photographs and, you know, just relived all those moments with each piece of ephemera from that time period that we viewed. And it was, it was extraordinarily painful. I mean, I know some people forget their pain.

For me, it's immense memories. So I did, I got hurt during my officer basic course in Missouri at Fort Leonard Wood. And my parents drove down because I, you know, was in the hospital. And my commander was in dental surgery. So he wasn't there. So my parents had to speak with the first sergeant and the first sergeant, it was in my, in my, actually my platoon leader.

They were both new to active duty. They were both transfers from a reserve component and were new to the line of duty process, which is a really involved process. You want to make sure that you do the best for your soldiers and make sure that they're cared for.

And so my parents said, well, we're not leaving here without a line of duty form, you know, like without this process being at least started. And I'm really grateful that they did that because it, you know, without that, I don't know what would have happened.

Lita: What did it for me was the fact that when I realized that I actually was able to accomplish something during that time. Well, I'm talking about during the time after Jean got injured and in officer basic, because I didn't think I was able to accomplish anything. But then when you look back at it, you realize that I guess you do what you have to do as a mom, not as a, as an army officer, but as a mom.

Jean: But basically they released me to go with my parents to go home. And, but it was, it was a long, it was a very long process writing about all of this, because not only are you reliving everything, but you're trying to put it down in words. And I think that process, taking it from your memory and from the document that you're reading through or the photo, and then trying to phrase it and explain it to a third party can be, like you said, very cathartic because you're trying to,

Lita: you're sharing,

Jean: You're sharing, and you're trying to express what happened. And then you're also analyzing, you know, what you had been different.

And then at that, and the biggest thing is it's amazing realizing how far we've both come from that because you know, especially when looking through like medical documentation, realizing I went from, you know, not really talking or being, I wasn't able to breathe on my own or, you know, walking or, you know, just because of where I was injured, there were so many things related to, you know, just basic life-sustaining activities. That it is truly amazing that I've, I can now walk, although I do still fall over, which, you know, it, it trend that to explain it to someone like, you know, people are always like, well, do you want to sit down? I'm like, no, that if I sit down and then I stand up, I'm more likely to fall over. It's better just to stay standing, but seeing that growth and just seeing, you know, healthcare providers document that, you know, oh my gosh, she's talking and, you know, seeing, seeing that progression has been wonderful.

But it was.

Sonya: Yeah. I'm so glad to hear that the memoir was able to do that for you, you know, that, that being able to look at that pain with distance and see, see the, actually see the change. Like it's hard to argue with things on paper.

Jean: Right. And then I guess another aspect of that is being able to meet, kind of meet one's parents as an adult and to be able to read the poignant points that they wanted to express to a third party, you know, like how they've gotten to where they are, why they made the decisions that they've made and what really shaped who they are today. And being able to see my mom from that angle has been really eye-opening.

Sonya: Was there a thing in particular where you were like, oh, well, I guess just realizing,

Jean: Yeah, my mom was so young, you know, and that she was put in such tough spots and realizing that it, I mean, it's, you know, issues still occur today, obviously, but just that, you know, I can never, I cannot picture my mother saying, you know, this happened to you. You've, you know, you've been assaulted by this person and groomed by this person. Now I want you to marry them.

I just can't picture it at all.

Sonya: Lita, did you feel so young at the time?

Lita: I think I still feel young. I mean, you know, when you're talking about young, how could I be anything other? I'm young at heart.

Jean: That's true. Yeah. But we were hoping that she never grows up.

Lita: Right.

Jean: And we see this as she has whimsical little mushroom characters sitting in front of her on her desk. So yeah, she's definitely a youthful spirit.

Yeah. But it was just, it was interesting to kind of live through those memories with her or see her perspective on things and see how that has formed who she is. And I think, you know, you can definitely see why she spends so much time helping others and why that seems to be her drive is to, you know, constantly try to, you know, find a way to help someone else.

Sonya: Did you ever have like different memories or interpretations of the same event that you had to like sort through for?

Jean: Well, I definitely have, you know, like memories of court, but I think it just solidified my impressions from that time. Yeah. And just, I was just like, yeah, I can definitely see how that was very hard for her and how she was willing to do anything she could because, you know, the whole legal system is challenging for anyone to deal with.

But for someone who's, yeah, who, you know, is very young, it's incredibly challenging. And when you're trying to do the best for your children, you know, you're willing to do anything for them. And that can be very hard.

And then also, I mean, I think we're both still growing and it's been great to see my mom, you know, grow as a person and just see her, you know, see her journey. And then also to see that we've shared so many similar experiences and how we handle them in very similar ways. So the whole, you know, walking into basically an assignment and being, you know, led over to a typewriter and just being astonished by that and realizing that neither of us can type, which isn't good for someone who wants, you know, for an editor who wants two people to put out a book.

Lita: Right.

Jean: Realizing that two people don't type. But then my mom did start a genealogical research project for her own family and we did make a funny discovery.

Lita: Yep. My birth father, who I never met, was in the army as a clerk typist.

Sonya: Crazy!

Jean: Everyone just assumes.  Yeah. So he was the one that they put a legacy. Yeah.

Yes. Unfortunately, we failed him greatly because we never learned.

Lita: We don't type.

Jean: My sister types. But yeah, we do not type. But just being, you know, both seeing that that was what it was assumed, you know, women type. And it's like, no, but men can obviously type because, you know, he filled that role. Yeah. So good on him.

Sonya: Yeah. And I think maybe maybe jumping back just a smidge, you were talking about how you have all of these records that you're able to reference.

Lita: I'm dreading them now.

Sonya: OK, go ahead. How many?

Lita: I finally got to a point where I'm enjoying shredding that entire.

Jean: That's a whole new cathartic.

Lita: Yes. Yes. It's an exercise in release.

Jean: Yeah. As long as she doesn't take the shred and then and burn it.

Lita: But you know, but I am definitely that's what I do i, a couple of hours away. I shred.

Sonya: I'm sure you could do it. Shred on a guitar next. Yeah. But no, I mean, I think having all of those record keeping, it's helped you in many ways throughout your life. Right.

But I think it helped you again in this memoir because then you had that sort of backbone that you could keep coming back to of like, OK, I know this happened. I can reference this point, et cetera, in a way that a lot of a lot of people trying to tell their story are just reliant upon, you know, foggy thinking back. Yeah.

Lita: Yeah.

Jean: Yeah.

Sonya: So I think that's a real strength of your of your book and of your work here is that you have that knowledge. Yeah. That reference point.

Lita: Right.  Actually, in the pile of shredding, I just found the Chicago Tribune headlines where the case that I took up against the Catholic Church was so blatantly plastered across the front page. Yeah. I don't think I'm going to shred that.

Sonya: You can put it with the rest of your trophies.

Lita: I'm going to. Yes, because I succeeded in that lawsuit and it did give me a good feeling to know that, you know,

Jean: he didn't get away with it and hopefully to affect change.

Lita: Right. Yes. Right.

Sonya: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, so in that sense, I think one of the questions that gets asked to authors all the time, so I'll ask it to you, too, is like, why is it important for people to read or hear about your story now? Like what conversations do you want to start? What things are you hoping to change now with your story?

Jean: Well, I think it's important to read works and to read from perspectives other than one's own because we live in our own circle of friends and family.

If you're in your own work environment, you get accustomed to those things. But to read from a wide array of outside perspectives can definitely, you know, open up your mind to what's going on in other people's lives and make you more empathetic to the world around you and to people out there because everyone has their own struggle.

Sonya: Yeah.

Jean: And you may realize, you know, that you're going through a very similar struggle or you're going through a very different struggle, but you're going through the same process. Yeah. So, you know, putting out the information for, you know, individuals who are just now joining the military, I think that's great.

We've gone through and read military memoirs from a host of different individuals and it continues to be, you know, just one avenue of approaching things and being able to just, it's just fascinating to just kind of, it gives you a sense of camaraderie too. And reading,

Lita: And comparing

Jean: And comparing. Yeah. You compare and contrast. You're like, oh yeah, you know, I know what that feels like. And even if you've never served, you get kind of a sense of what it's like to serve and, you know, not everyone can or wants to, but to be able to, you know, experience that a little bit, I think is important.

And then just to see how someone else views the world. And I think that's always a wonderful thing to do. And one of the reasons why we, you know, turn to books is because it lets you enter a new world.

Sonya: Yeah. Yeah. Those common threads of empathy and human experience throughout it all.

And it brings us closer without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you so much for talking with me and for sharing all these thoughts and stories with us today. We'll return with some more updates and some upsets in the next episode of the Beyond the Page podcast. And if you want to hear about how Lita and Jean's family reacted to this memoir, stay tuned for part two.

For listeners in the Chicago area, Lita and Jean, the people and the book will be available at the Printers Row Lit Fest we've got going on here Saturday, September 12th. It's free. It takes place from 10 to 6 p.m. right along South Dearborn.

Hope to see you there. And before we go, don't forget to follow, subscribe, rate, share the Master Wings Publishing Podcast. And until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep the spirit of storytelling alive.